Divide over fossil fuels phaseout can be bridged, Cop30 president says

Exclusive: André Corrêa do Lago says rise of clean energy must be acknowledged and rich countries need to do more

Oil-producing countries need to acknowledge the rise of clean energy, and rich countries will have to provide more assurances on finance if the chasm between negotiating nations at Cop30 is to be bridged, the president of the summit has said.

André Corrêa do Lago, the veteran Brazilian climate diplomat in charge of the talks, said: “Developing countries are looking at developed countries as countries that could be much more generous in supporting them to be more sustainable. They could offer more finance, and technology.”

This does not necessarily involve an increase in the headline amount of money to be provided directly from rich world coffers, set last year at $300bn (£230bn) a year by 2035. It could also come from better use of existing finance, Corrêa do Lago added.

“You don’t need more money. You don’t need public money from developed countries. You need to leverage more dollars from each dollar that you have,” he said in an exclusive interview with the Guardian as the talks entered their crucial stage.

“They can offer not only more resources in banks, in multinational development banks; put more public money in funds like the green climate fund or the global environment facility, but there are an increasing number of alternatives like debt-for-nature swaps and other [instruments].”

The divide over the “transition away from fossil fuels” has emerged as the biggest faultline at the Cop30 talks, now entering their final days in Brazil. On Tuesday, more than 80 countries demanded a roadmap to the transition as a key outcome of the summit, in what some campaigners described as a “turning point”.

But they are likely to face stiff opposition from petrostates such as Saudi Arabia and others who are dependent on fossil fuels. Decisions at “conference of the party” meetings require consensus, so even a handful of states could scupper the roadmap proposal.

“Not only is [the divide] binary, but it is two extremes: one very favourable [to a phaseout] the other very unfavourable. There aren’t many countries that are indifferent,” said Corrêa do Lago.

But countries could still come together, he added. “Like most of these negotiations, it is less binary than it looks,” he said, if countries could recognise their own internal contradictions, and face up to the global need for climate action.

Some oil-producing countries oppose the fossil fuel phaseout, but so do some consumer countries. “Some countries, because oil is a very important source of revenue, and other countries because they evaluate that they still need to use coal for more years, have shown very clearly that this proposal is not acceptable to them,” Corrêa do Lago said.

Oil-producing countries also had hard truths to face up to. “They have to decide by themselves how they interpret the transition [away from fossil fuels],” he said. “They are already doing it. There is one statistic that shows that the use of oil will be reduced inevitably in the years ahead. [Electric vehicles are] reducing significantly the demand for oil, for gasoline and diesel.”

He urged all countries to examine their future in the context of the climate crisis. “All countries could engage in this exercise, which is to find its own path to transition towards net zero, which is what we have committed to,” he said.

Cover photo:  A photovoltaic power plant in China. The rise of clean energy must be acknowledged says André Corrêa do Lago. Photograph: Costfoto/NurPhoto/REX/Shutterstock